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Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by A.I Impaired » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:38 am



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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by Beige » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:19 pm

Now that I'm back from Chicago I'm 100% ready to leap into the Metal Gear Hideo funtime machine. Well, actually I want to leap into the HD collection and do a complete end-to-end run of MGS 1 through 5 as the final hurrah.

a) Who owns the HD collection?
b) I'm told that Peace Walker is canonical and necessary for understanding both Ground Zeroes and MGS5. Who can confirm?
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by RedSwirl » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:01 pm

Beige wrote:Now that I'm back from Chicago I'm 100% ready to leap into the Metal Gear Hideo funtime machine. Well, actually I want to leap into the HD collection and do a complete end-to-end run of MGS 1 through 5 as the final hurrah.

a) Who owns the HD collection?
b) I'm told that Peace Walker is canonical and necessary for understanding both Ground Zeroes and MGS5. Who can confirm?


a) I own it. Didn't mess with it thoroughly but it's a really good 720p conversion of MGS2 and 3 along with Peace Walker.

b) I'm gonna err on yes, but I think MGSV, both Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain, contain enough of a recap of the events of Peace Walker.

Here's the thing though, Peace Walker really is the sequel to MGS3. The only thing that stopped it from being MGS5 was being on the PSP. I'd wager to say its storyline is every bit as integral to Big Boss's character, and it introduces its own whole unique cast of characters who are just as developed as those MGS3 introduced, SPOILERS:
Spoiler: show
one of whom in particular I believe plays a big role in MGS5 -- Otacon's dad (well two if you count Paz I guess). You also see the beginnings of the real Master Miller
-- MGS1 SPOILER:
Spoiler: show
the guy Liquid impersonated in MGS1.
And honestly, I legitimately got sucked into Peace Walker's story. It's tone is more in line with MGS3 than MGS2 or 4, feeling a little bit more subdued than the latter two games. That is until the ending which a lot of people criticized for being one of the most batshit things in MGS (and that's saying something). And in MGS fashion, this game maintains the downright educational level of exposition on world issues at the time -- the time here being 1974 and the place being Central America. It gives Peace Walker the weird grounding that has drawn a lot of people into MGS.

And gameplay-wise I guess Peace Walker will prepare you for what's shocking a lot of people in MGS5 right now -- Mother Base. If you've ever played Final Fantasy Tactics it's kind of like managing your army in that game. You recruit people, they level up, and you can send them on missions. If you haven't, the Assassin's guild system from Assassin's Creed Brotherhood is kind of a miniature ripoff of the same system. Metal Gear has plugged it into a system where you shuffle around staff to unlock weapon upgrades, get intel for missions, keep people fed, keep people medicated, and make money.

That said, the recap I heard on a cassette tape near the beginning of Phantom Pain in my opinion covers the skeletal basics of what happened in Peace Walker.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by RedSwirl » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:05 pm

Oh, and I'm gonna make a separate post for this: If you do plan to replay the series, don't skip Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

It's the second MSX game you'll find tucked away somewhere in the submenus of MGS3 in the HD collection. I think you can ignore the first one since it has about as much narrative as most NES games, but the second one is truly a feat to behold when you keep in mind it was originally released on an 8-bit home computer in 1990.

How do I put this... Metal Gear Solid 1 is pretty much a remake of that game, in terms of gameplay and honestly story too for the most part. MG2 is the Link to the Past to MGS1's Ocarina of Time, the Final Fantasy VI of the Metal Gear series.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by Beige » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:00 pm

You know Red, I've never played it. On your advice - and considering that this may be my LAST chance to do the series front to back - I will take the time and do it.

The only question that remains is, I guess, whether to play them in canonical chronological order or in the order that the games were made.

I think I'm going to err on the side of playing in the order they were released since, chronology or no, Kojima's thinking and all the in-jokes evolve progressively with the years.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by Calin Kim » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:00 pm

I'm in on the replay. I kind of want to play both of the MSX games since I never have.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by A.I Impaired » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:28 am

I can also vouch for Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. It plays so much like MGS1 (particularly in the PS2/HD collection release with the controls mapped), you will feel instantly at home. MGS1 definitely pays its share of homages to that game as well, though both do have their strong unique memories.
Spoiler: show
Never had so much fun wading through garbage and sewers as in MG2

Certainly MGS1 changed things with its cinematic storytelling. MG2 does have character to its story though.

Later on I would love to play some of the non-canon games again. As in:
Metal Gear Solid (Ghost Babel), a successful capturing of MGS flavor on the gameboy colour? Don't doubt it. Very competent MGS game, brand new scenario and setting. Also VR Missions to spice things up. Very hard to track down a cartridge. I homebrewed it on a PSP. Also Metal Gear AC!D 1&2, the reasons I wish I hadn't sold said psp, as digital copies do not exist for my Vita TV to play, and my UMD"s are still kicking around. As though Metal Gear couldn't be more crazy, they turned it up a notch. Then they threw into a turn based trading card/stealth/action game. It all worked better than I could have actually imagined.

Portable ops had its moments, though control wise I found things hard to stand.

Now Peace Walker and I have a complicated relationship.
Initially the controls threw me off like with Portable ops, and the small environments... just didn't seem that interesting. Coming out post MGS4 was a tough sell, though the co-op really did help it stand out. I did resent a bit that the solo experience sometimes suffered without a helping hand though, particularly with the bosses. I dug what I saw of the story, but eventually grew disinterested in the game entirely. This is strange for me... Metal Gear is usually top of my list of priorities. I guess I wanted this game to feel more like MGS3 than say.... Monster Hunter. The mother base stuff was cool, but did not keep me invested. Its this weird confession, and I feel as though I need to give it another chance to hook me. I have since watched the cinematics to update my perspective on the overarching story.... but it still remains a game of shame.
Something I feel alienated from for some reason.

I probably will go ahead with Phantom Pain and hope that I can piece it all together well enough. I do admire those on the noble path however.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by RedSwirl » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:05 am

On the subject of getting caught up and understanding the story, what did everyone who played MGS1 in 1998 think of the game's constant referencing of the "Zanzibar Land" events? I imagine people probably just took it as an extra pillar of lore to deepen the game and give solidity to Snake's portrayal as a cynical war vet, but it actually referred to the events of a previous game that had not yet been released in North America.
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by Calin Kim » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:57 pm

Wasn't there a screen where you could read the story of the previous games in MGS?
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Re: Cult of Kojima, Rise in respect. Our time is nigh.

by Angry Jedi » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:41 pm

There was that "briefing" thing that went on for hours. Probably quicker to play the games! :)

I started replaying MGS a while back and got through 1 (man, that hasn't aged brilliantly) and 2 (that has, particularly in HD) but stalled near the beginning of 3 for some reason. I should get back to them, and if there's likely to be Peace Walker co-op action at some point (PS3?) I may well be interested in giving it a go -- I want to beat 3 before I do that, though.
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