Where would you start someone off on traditional CRPGs?

[Alex Connolly]

Going to have to agree with Calin here in saying learning to swim is as much playing a game as it is post-grok. Figuring out systems is as important as using them proficiently, I say.

Is this confounding a product of modern instant gratification? I know not.

[Calin Kim]

I would also agree with you, though, Red Swirl. I think a lot of the PC RPGs that get held up as classics assume you've played D&D at some point. And, to be completely honest with you, there is sometimes so much stuff that happens behind the scenes with character creators and such that I get overwhelmed too.

I actually started up a game of Icewind Dale II last week, because it's one of those games that I always meant to play but never got around to. I played the first one when it first came out, and I knew I was in for with the second one, albeit with 3rd ed D&D rules.

Character creation was pretty brutal since I was not only trying to create a balanced party of 6 characters but also because I was trying to make sure the characters individually were the best version of their archetype they could be. What type of magic specialty do I choose for my Wizard? How the fuck do I know? I haven't played 3rd ed in over 10 years...

I would like to say, though, that if you're trying to get into a game and I've played it before, I am happy to talk with you on Gchat or whatever while you're creating your character.

Also, if you're playing Baldur's Gate for the first time, make sure your character can use a bow. Trust me.

[Angry Jedi]

Also, if you're playing Baldur's Gate for the first time, make sure your character can use a bow. Trust me.

The ability to cast the Summon spells is useful, too. I defeated the final boss by spoogeing wolves and bears all over him so he couldn't move for local wildlife, then pelting him with arrows from a distance. I don't think that's how you're supposed to do it.

[Calin Kim]

Also, if you're playing Baldur's Gate for the first time, make sure your character can use a bow. Trust me.

The ability to cast the Summon spells is useful, too. I defeated the final boss by spoogeing wolves and bears all over him so he couldn't move for local wildlife, then pelting him with arrows from a distance. I don't think that's how you're supposed to do it.

When a first level Wizard can get taken down by a house cat if the RNG gods have a weird sense of humor that day, I don't think there's a wrong way to do it

[RedSwirl]

Betrayal at Krondor is $1.50 on GOG right now and for some reason videos of the game interest me. It's something about the extremely primitive simulated 3D world. Worth it? What am I to expect?

[Angry Jedi]

Krondor is an interesting one in that it uses novel-style narration throughout. It was a pretty good game for the time, too, as I recall; it has a vaguely SRPG-ish battle system with digitised characters Mortal Kombat-style, but I can't remember a lot about the exploration side of things.

For $1.50 it's a risk you can probably safely take.

[Calin Kim]

Red, do you have a plan of attack for when you start this thing up?

[Alex Connolly]

Dan is a classic. I love it how the fellow seemingly does more homework in preparation for playing than he does actually, you know, playing the game in question. It's awesome.

[RedSwirl]

Red, do you have a plan of attack for when you start this thing up?

Well, as I said in the starting post, on this subject I was really just curious about the subject of people parachuting into CRPGs in general. A lot of newbies seem to avoid them entirely and I was trying to figure out why, and why they don't seem to have the same on-ramps as console games. Maybe it's because of how PC games are built more like computer software. Sure old console games expected you to read manuals too, but that wasn't mandatory -- the mechanics were pick-up-and-play. Getting into some PC games back in the day was like figuring out Microsoft Access or Photoshop. The "help" section in ArmA 3 reads like the Microsoft Word help section.

Anyway, the "plan"
Eventually get around to starting Wasteland 1 some day. Move on to classic Fallout, then Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc., all preferably in release order. All these games are already sitting in my accounts or hard drive. I got a copy of Ultima Savage Empire kicking around too.

But the backlog is a terrible thing. This is just me splitting that massive backlog into genres. I've already successfully embarked on an immersive sim odyssey that took me through Ultima Underworld, Thief, Thief 2, and Arx Fatalis (having already played Deus Ex and System Shock 2 to get ready for their respective successors). That went well. Also went through a sort of tactical shooter odyssey that mainly just involved the old Ghost Recon expansions. I still have Rainbow Six 3 and SWAT 4 kicking around. I started on space shooters by trying out Elite 1 and 2 and also getting through all of Descent 1.

This stuff is moving along, but the backlog is a terrible thing. I think I already laid out elsewhere on this forum my current preoccupation with reaching some semblance of closure with Skyrim before I head into Witcher 3.

And just so you know, this research and homework I keep doing on these game works. I would have bounced right off Elite and Elite 2 like a ping pong ball had I not spent a day prior reading the manuals and guides to both games. Same goes for Ultima Underworld, System Shock 2, the first Deus Ex, and pretty much any pre-2003 PC game I've investigated.

[Calin Kim]

If I could make a suggestion then - do not make Wasteland your first of those games. Fallout has a much, much gentler learning curve than Wasteland, and you will only be responsible for creating a single character instead of an entire party. Fallout will still be jumping in the deep end, but there will be a lifeguard present (or something like that).

Though, I know both of those games really damn well and am happy to provide help if you want it.